Data transfer from camera to PC, USB / Firewire

[Walter]

Hi,

Which is the best method to transfer data from a camcorder to pc, USB or Firewire?

[Bob]

Originally posted by Walter
Hi,

Which is the best method to transfer data from a camcorder to pc, USB or Firewire?

Maybe neither! USB and Firewire are both just "ports" i.e. sockets where connections can be made. To transfer the data, you need to have some software to actually do the recording.

In Windows XP there is such an application "Windows Movie Maker" which can record the stream.

But, this depends on the camcorder outputting a digital datastream, and this only applies to digital camcorders.

Analogue camcorders, however, cannot put out this digital stream, so you need a "Capture Card".

This can take many forms.

Some graphics cards - notably many from the Nvidia range - have a capture function and associated connection (usually a phono socket) and they can convert the analogue stream into a digital one which can be recorded by the movie application.

Another type of card with a capture card are the computer TV cards. These can be very inexpensive, and work well.

If you are after the ultimate highest quality of transfer, then what you need is a "DVI Bridge" which is a standalone device that takes the analogue stream in and outputs a digital stream that you can then send to the movie application via USB or Firewire ports.

Bob

[Steve]

Originally posted by Walter
Which is the best method to transfer data from a camcorder to PC, USB or Firewire?

I chose to use firewire.

Info on USB2

http://www.usb-2-0.com/what-is-usb-2-0.html

Info on Firewire

http://www.apple.com/firewire/

Info on Windows Movie Maker

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...er/default.asp

Windows movie maker recommending firewire

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...cameratopc.asp

Thoughts from reading the above etc....

USB1 is of no use for this sort of thing. USB2 is actually a little faster than firewire. Firewire appears to be the standard for getting digital video from the video camera to the PC. You can also move it back from the PC to the camera if you have the right hardware. There is a faster firewire that operates at double speed, but I have not seen it on anything and I don't have it. USB is a serial port.

I'm not a techie and if any are about do jump in...

Steve

[Walter]

Originally posted by Steve
I chose to use firewire. Info on Firewire....

Steve,

My thoughts were that Firewire was the prefered connection and you have confirmed that.

My camcorder has both USB and Firewire so I will have to get a Firewire card as my PC only has USB 1.X.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Walter
My camcorder has both USB and Firewire so I will have to get a Firewire card as my PC only has USB 1.X.

I don't know what works and what doesn't in older PCs and with older operating systems etc. This card would seem the sort of thing you'd want if it does work in your machine:

http://www.dabs.com/uk/channels/comp...quicklinx=2J0R

That gives you 3 x USB2 and 2 Firewire, and costs £21 including VAT.

The firewire only one is £11 from the same source, and there is a link to it on that page.

If you bought a JVC it probably came with a USB2 lead and you might well find that does all you want/need. What model did you get in the end?

Steve

[Andy]

It's also claimed that Firewire does not use any of the processor power and that USB2 doesn't always perform up to its theoretical maximum.

I only use Firewire on my film scanner but I'll probably buy a card reader when they get cheaper.

Andy

[Walter]

Originally posted by Steve
That gives you 3 x USB2 and 2 Firewire, and costs £21 including VAT.

The firewire only one is £11 from the same source, and there is a link to it on that page.

If you bought a JVC it probably came with a USB2 lead and you might well find that does all you want/need. What model did you get in the end?

Steve

Steve,
I purchased a JVC GR-D50 from http://www.hiwayhifi.com/site/ in 334-336, Edgware Road, London W2 1EA
They were very helpfull and knowlegeable and were happy to let me see and compare camcorders, their prices were very keen.

As you say USB / firewire cards are very cheap, I doubt if I wil get it from DABS because of the postal strike.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Walter
Edgware Road, London W2 1EA.... As you say USB / firewire cards are very cheap, I doubt if I will get it from DABS because of the postal strike.

I got my camera from the JVC place at Tottenham Court Road.

What are you going to film with it? Any ideas?

We got some letters today posted yesterday etc, and firms like Dabs will probably use a courier if you pay a little more.

We do have the odd letter stuck in London sorting offices I know, and these postal people striking illegally and risking lives etc by holding up hospital test results and so on should simply be fired in my opinion.

If they have a good argument they should have a vote and then an official strike with notice then vital items will be sent other ways, they can't as I understand it get their colleagues to back an official strike because they are talking nonsense...

Steve

[Walter]

Originally posted by Steve
I got my camera from Edgware Road, probably the same JVC place.

What are you going to film with it? Any ideas?

We do have the odd letter stuck in London sorting offices I know, and these postal people striking illegally and risking lives etc by holding up hospital test results and so on should simply be fired in my opinion.

If they have a good argument they should have a vote and then an official strike with notice then vital items will be sent other ways, they can't as I understand it get their colleagues to back an official strike because they are talking nonsense...

Steve

Steve,
I have only just got the battries charged and have set up the options on the camcorder so I have not gotten round to what to video.

I was very supprised that there was not a tape in the camera box which I would have expected, still a tape was not mentioned on the accesories supplied.

I have not decided if I should just pop a firewire card into my old 1GHz PIII or get a faster one with XP Home supplied, I have had a quote from a local dealer to supply a system with out a monitor for £599 inc VAT which is a 2.6GHz 800 MHz FSB P4 DVD, 512 Meg RAm 40 Gig hard drive Usb 2 and Firewire, LAN and XP Home which sounded very reasonable so I may go for that.

Re. your comments about the post strike I fully aggree with you.

[David]

Walter,

I was just about to sugest an alternative camera for you to consider, but see I am too late! It was just that Which did a feature on them this month and chose the Sony DCR-TRV245 (£279.98 at Amazon.co.uk including a free carry case!) as a clear 'Best Buy'.

They didn't include the model you bought though, just the JVC GR-D20E which didn't get on to their recomended list... mind you they often seem to favour different models to those which come out well in the magazine reviews anyway!

No doubt we can expect to see some even better results from you now... enjoy!

-David-

[Steve]

David,

I found the specs for both if you want to compare them...

Technical Specification of the Sony DCR TRV245:

.Webcam Capability
.Digital8
.Optical Sensor Type: CCD 540,000 pixels
.Effective Sensor Resolution: 350,000 pixels
.Optical Sensor Size: 1/6"
.Min Illumination: 0 lux
.Digital Zoom: 700 x
.Recording Speed: SP, LP
.Shooting Modes: Spotlight, Sunset & Moon, landscape, portrait mode, Beach & Ski, sports mode
.Special Effects Solarisation, Sepia, Mosaic, Pastel, Monotone, Negative Art
.Faders: Bounce fader, monotone fader, mosaic fader, black fader
.Image Stabiliser: Electronic (Steady Shot)
.Max Shutter Speed: 1/4000 sec
.Min Shutter Speed: 1/50 sec
.Exposure Modes: Automatic, manual
.White Balance: Automatic
.Viewfinder Type: 0.44" LCD monitor
.Viewfinder Resolution 113,000 pixels
.Display Format 123,200 pixels
.Microphone: Built-in Stereo
.Microphone Technology: Electret condenser
.Connector Type: Composite video/audio output, S-Video output, IEEE 1394 (FireWire/i.LINK), USB, DC power input


Zoom lens on the Sony DCR TRV245:

.Focal Length: 2.5mm - 50 mm
.Focal Length Equivalent to 35mm Camera: 42 - 840mm
.Focus Adjustment: Automatic/Manual
.Auto Focus: TTL phase detection
.Lens Aperture: F/1.6-2.4
.Optical Zoom: 20 x
.Zoom Adjustment: Motorised drive
.Filter Size: 37 mm


Additional features on the Sony DCR TRV245:

.Low Lux / Night Mode
.Digital Still Camera Function
.Title Generator
.Search Modes: Date search, photo search, end search
.Built-in light
.Time Code
.Built-in speaker
.Backlight compensation
.Digital noise reduction


Accessories included with the Sony DCR TRV245:

.Software
.Shoulder strap
.Lens cap
.A/V cable, USB cable
.Rechargeable Lithium Ion Battery
.Service & Support 1 year warranty


Dimensions of the Sony DCR TRV245:

.Width 8.9cm
.Depth 19.9cm
.Height 10.1cm
.Weight 810g

The same site had this on the JVC walter bought - also said it was a What Camcorder Best Buy:

Top Features of the JVC GRD50:

.1/6-inch 800,000-pixel CCD
.16x Optical Zoom
.520 Lines of Resolution with Super High-Band Processor
.USB PC Link
.Video CD Creation
.Email Video Clips
.Web-Camera Function
.Digital Colour NightScope
.DV Input/Output (i.LINK, IEEE1394 compliant)
.Analogue Input
.2.5" Amorphous Silicon LCD Colour Monitor
.Power-Linked Operation


Other Features of the JVC GRD50:

High Quality Image & Sound
.MiniDV Format with PCM Stereo Sound
.Picture Stabiliser

Pro-Style Creativity
.700x Super Digital Zoom with Spline Interpolation
.Digital Effects and Scene Transitions
.Playback Digital Zoom


Overall Convenience offered by the JVC GRD50:

.Remote Control Provided
.S-Video and A/V Output Terminals
.LP Mode for 120 min. on single cassette


......I'm no expert, but from what I can gather the Sony is crap compared to the very low price JVC...

Some of the more obvious differences are that Walter has a MiniDV camera, the standard. Walter has a Super Hi Band processor/camera, the Sony isn't one. Walter has firewire in and out, the Sony doesn't do that. I think there are other differences but that is enough I guess...

Steve

[David]

Steve,

I think you missed the point of my post slightly... I wasn't saying that the two cameras are comparable, they are obviously not, as the JVC costs about £50 more than the Sony, effectively putting it into the next price bracket.

For anyone who is counting the pennies though, and who can't afford any more, the Sony would appear to offer good value for money. Those who can (like Walter!) would obviously go for a higher spec model.

It was just that my copy of Which magazine had arrived that morning featuring a Spotlight on Camcorders, and basically came to the conclusion that digital camcorders offer better overall picture quality than analogue models, which few would probably dispute.

They also compared six digital models, but as you probably know with Which tests, there is hardly a mention of technical specification, but it is all (usually) down to how a panel of users rates things such as Picture Quality, Image Stabilisation, Ease of Use etc. etc. Their findings do not always seem to agree with those of the specialised reviewers in magazines and on the web, but a lot of folks do turn to them for advice and guidance.

Although the Sony DCR-TRV245 attracted a higher score than the similarly priced JVC GR-D20E that again is no real indication of how another model from the same manufacturer will perform.

Most folks buy a particular model, based on criteria such as price, features which match their specific requirements, and possibly even brand 'status'.... it is rarely the case that everyone agrees on a particular 'best buy' and it is really a case of 'horses for courses', I suppose. You pays your money and you takes your choice!

I will just add in conclusion here, that I am not currently in the market for a replacement camcorder, neither have I studied the specifications etc in any great depth, and would certainly not call myself an expert in that particular field... all I did was to suggest a model which a consumer orientated magazine had chosen as a 'Best Buy'!

-David-

[Steve]

Originally posted by David
For anyone who is counting the pennies though, and who can't afford any more, the Sony would appear to offer good value for money.

As I've already said here and as we probably all agree the way to buy something like this has to be to decide what features you need and then get the best deal you can that includes them.

The Sony would probably not meet most peoples aspirations, it is 'just out' but dated in what it does. It is a much less capable camera than the one Walter bought.

though the Sony DCR-TRV245 attracted a higher score than the similarly priced JVC GR-D20E that again is no real indication of how another model from the same manufacturer will perform.

What the lads at the mag thought one wet Tuesday or whatever never does seem to mean much. I would never buy either of those, and why they'd compare such different cameras I don't know.

t folks buy a particular model, based on criteria such as price, features which match their specific requirements, and possibly even brand 'status'....

Seeing the news re the hefty layoffs at Sony does knock that brand down in a lot of peoples eyes I guess.

I did was to suggest a model which a consumer orientated magazine had chosen as a 'Best Buy'!

..and my message just quoted the specs from Walter's and the Sony and pointed out one was junky and one seemed to meet his needs/wants.

The JVC is quoted as best buy at What Camcorder I think I mentioned. However, none of that actually means anything and if they said that low level Sony was a best buy it wouldn't make it of any use to most of us.

Just as the low level JVC model you mention would not be of use to most here, with no USB, no DV in, and so on.

Steve

[David]

Steve,

I wish I hadn't mentioned it at all now really!

As you say, the models they tested would apear in general to be far too basic for the needs of most folks on here anyway.

-David-

[Steve]

Originally posted by David
I wish I hadn't mentioned it at all now really!

I'm glad you did.. it demonstrated a number of good points:

Mags tend to not really tell you if something is going to meet your needs. They also often seem to miss out critical info and plug their favourite brand or choose to compare models where you should probably buy none of them, or whatever.

Seeing what others have chosen and why in spots like this can make things much clearer, particularly if the specs are listed in full and what matters and why is discussed etc.

The days when it was worth paying £4.99 to compare a small number of items to each other seem to be ending really. You can compare many more on the Internet for free, and without often biased journos controlling the info.

I personally often buy due to personal recommendations from folks here, I never pay any attention to mag reviews. I've seen how some were produced, and I have no faith in them.

Steve