Mayor suggests amnesty

[Steve]

I wonder what the folks here think of the thought from the Mayor of London re an amnesty for illegal immigrants working in London?

He has put it forward as an idea for discussion... stating that about 400,000 illegal immigrants currently work in London.

An amnesty would see all those it applied to becoming citizens after passing suitability tests etc... and then they'd be paying taxes and living here legally like everyone else.

Some media outlets like the Daily Mail are attacking the Mayor like crazy on the basis that this is rewarding coming here illegally in the first place... and the Mail seems to want all these people sent home as they are taking jobs from Brits.

My take on what the Mail is saying is that it is very pompous and has racial overtones... and I think the concept of an amnesty for those who meet certain criteria has to have merit.

If we can get say 200,000 of these people onto the books, and out of illegal jobs/lives it would be a massive boost for the economy and taking out illegal practices etc.

The Mail thinking seems pretty dumb... as we have tried not to let these folks in, and tried not to let them work here, and tried to expel them etc etc for years.. it didn't work and never will...will it...

You see this in other places... the USA has something like 12 million Mexicans in the same sort of position.. so what is the latest/greatest thinking on this in the USA...

What Obama had to say: “Yes, they broke the law, and we should not excuse that. We should require them to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship, behind those who came here legally. But we cannot, and should not, deport 12 million people. ”

...so does anyone here have any opinion to share? I'm with the Mayor and the President Elect.. and not the Daily Mail...

Steve

[Roger]

Steve,

I find it easy not to be with the daily mail. But then you know that!

The thinking of the Mayor and the President Elect on the question of illegal immigrants is both pragmatic and humanitarian IMO.

I understand from the media that many 'illegals' undertake low-paid, mind-numbing work - occupying positions that indigenous citizens aren't exactly racing to secure for themselves.

As the economic downturn progresses, the dynamics of the labour market will no doubt change and 'illegal' workers will attract more vitriol from the 'right wing' thinkers.

Bringing them on-board and encouraging them to take part in officially contributing to the nation's wealth, etc. can only be a good thing.

Regards,

Roger

[Steve]

Roger,

The old notion of left or right doesn't really mean a lot to me.

Most folks I know vote for people like Mrs Thatcher and Tony Blair, and simply because they feel they are bright and suitable to represent a great nation like ours.

The same applies to the London Mayor I think, the man is unusual in many ways... but he is clearly bright....unlike Red Ken, who could be next to foolish in the dictionary...

The same also goes for President Elect Obama....he is clearly bright...unlike the man he replaces, who clearly isn't.

So in my view the problem with the Mail is not that they are any sort of 'wing'.. it is that they have written some very dumb editorials....ones that actually knock the bright thinking on this. I am not going to detail all they said.. but if you get to read them I suspect we'll share the view that they are pathetic and stupid in the extreme.. making all sorts of points that have no merit at all.

I hope the Mayor or the new Conservative Government on its way down the line can get something done about an amnesty for illegal immigrants who can meet certain rules and conditions...because it is the bright thing to do... and because it has the potential to turn half a million criminals into half a million good tax paying citizens....for starters..

I've just watched this current non elected clown of a PM come up with a heap of disgracefully dumb moves to counter a possible recession.

A mass of electrical goods from China etc will now be subsidised using money borrowed in our name.. and then we have large increases in taxation down the line... with the worst sort of job affecting taxes like National Insurance increased for all of us, and all employers...

The sooner we get a chance to vote this lot out the better.... they are clueless.... and I can't think of one bright current Labour politician...

Steve

[MarkTulloch]

Surely in this time of financial frailty anything which enables the people to become paid up members of society must have some merit. After all many of the so called "job stealing" immigrants are simply doing the jobs and tasks which many so called Britons are to lazy or stubborn to do.

[Steve]

Mark,

It is certainly worth considering isn't it... which is what makes the Mail pieces saying it isn't seem quite dumb really.

It is funny how those who read the Guardian look on the Mail as a Conservative paper... but it is arguing against ideas put forward for discussion by a Conservative Mayor.. these attempts to pigeon hole everyone as having this or that set of views simply don't work do they.

I think we are all being treated as fools by our Government today.. I wonder when that will dawn on our wonderful media....tomorrow perhaps...

We have announcements of tiny give aways, even the VAT is only a £12 billion deal and it seems the largest.. yet this smokescreen is meant to account for the hundreds of millions the government is going to borrow, and how it is going to double our national debt etc.

Doesn't it look like an announcement to cover the truth to anyone? The truth being that we have given all this money, hundreds of billions, to the crooks in the financial sector.. and the new 45% tax rate and increasing NI and so on is all to help start to pay that back.. though vastly higher taxation will be needed down the line from what I've seen said.

I wonder if anyone else here agrees with my take on things... or do the news items explaining the government is giving away peanuts and moving some dates for things and will be doubling the national debt all add up to anyone... It seems a simple con - they have to tell us they are borrowing all this money.. but not mentioning that most of it is to give to their pals in the City is so so wrong....and so so typically Labour.. assuming the public are too dumb to notice etc.

Steve

[Mike]

First of all I think you have to accept the fact that the people working over here illegally are going to continue working here.
Even If only a percentage of them take the amnesty offered It must be a good thing and In my opinion I think that would be quite a big percentage.
At least that would be money coming into the country via taxes etc.

As for the Daily Mail, I am really disappointed in that paper, there was a time I used to buy it every day and thought It was a good middle of the road paper to read that was down to earth and not pompous.

My feelings changed 2 or 3 years ago when they started to knock the Labour party on nearly every other page. I don't mind admitting that for the majority of my life I have voted for the conservatives but that is after making up my own mind. What I don't like is being treated like some kind of idiot with a constant barrage of anti labour propaganda!

I voted with my feet and cancelled my daily delivery around two and a half years ago.

As for the reduction in vat, I think that is an expensive way of tinkering with things.

In all honesty how many firms advertising a product at say £19.99 are going to reduce it to the £19.56 or so to allow for the 2.5 % reduction?

I do think something needs to be done to kick start things but couldn't all those billions have been better spent on say roads and housing that would have at least put a lot more people into work who would then be spending themselves?

[Steve]

Mike,

I'm coming to the opinion that the cuts are a smokescreen, as they need to borrow hundreds of billions and increase taxes massively to cover what they've given to the city... and if they say that they know they lose the next election.

So, let's say we are giving it away to the poor.. while actually giving them very little, and mainly shuffling dates and announcing quite hefty tax increases for down the line etc.

In fact, as often seems the case with Labour, the main help goes to the rich who spend millions.. as the 2.5% will add up for them.. for the rest of us it is a meaningless sum off a few items. Food and books and kids stuff is all exempt anyway of course.

The added cost to industry and retail of having to reprice every item in stock just before Christmas is a really really bad thing too... totally stupid, like almost everything Gordon Brown has ever done in my view...

Imagine a UK where we'd let a few banks and building societies go bust, where we'd reduced income tax and NI and fuel duty, and where we'd refused to borrow anything further and instead said we were going to reduce the massive waste in government spending... the future would look a lot better wouldn't it.

I agree about the Mail, it used to be much better. I don't remember the really thick editorials we seem to get in it now. I still like the layout and things like their TV coverage.. but the editorials seem to be almost as manic as those in the Guardian etc...

I expect the government will be telling us next that they've given a billion to Jaguar to stop them closing... but who talked of/arranged massive taxation of larger engined cars...they did. Their actions will close Jaguar and Range Rover etc etc unless there are some people about willing to pay the massive taxes that are still on their way... so if it isn't their aim to put lots of us out of work and to kill our remaining prestige car companies they are as usual shooting us all in the foot..

They even put up the tax on petrol today didn't they...to ensure it didn't go down with the VAT change as it should have... amazing. Helping people?

Steve